Here's my story of
how a lying, vengeful, non-paying bidder (NPB) ruined my otherwise perfect
feedback rating because he:
- Didn't read the auction listing and look at the
shipping cost that was in the listing before bidding.
- Felt no obligation to abide by eBay's bidder
policies and that the auction was "in question" because he disagreed with
the shipping cost (Yet he bid anyway despite the total that could be seen
in the shipping calculator on the auction page and that a bid opens a
contractual obligation to follow through).
- Still protested the shipping charge even after a
lower alternative was offered (though not required of me).
- Couldn't accept factual negative feedback about
his poor performance as a bidder.
- Retaliated with lies that are legally defined as
libel.
- Compounded the libel by adding more lies after
the truth was noted by me.
Here's the evidence (If there are any
lawyers out there who would consider helping me in this case pro-bono, I'd
appreciate it.)
This started after my negative feedback concerning
the bidder. I posted to his feedback profile:
NPB. Wouldn't pay listed ship &
even balked at lower $ ship offer. Why bid?! :-(
Here are the facts on that:
- "NPB"
- Fact: He didn't pay! eBay acknowledged this and refunded my final value
fee.
- "Wouldn't
pay listed ship" - Fact: See above. Also see
email at end of this section
- "even
balked at lower $ ship offer." - Fact: Bidder in
initial feedback to me admits to lower shipping charge offered (gives
incorrect figure though). Later he turns around and says that no other
shipping offer was made. Can't keep his story straight I see.
- "Why
bid?! :-(" - Seriously, I had to wonder why
someone would agree to eBay's policies on bidding then pull this stunt.
":-(" is me, stuck with listing fees and sad.
Bidder's first lie-filled feedback was:
"BEWARE! Ship charge omitted when
listed/10% off. & 16lbs later? a SCAM!!!"
- Bidder posts to my feedback, "BEWARE!
Ship charge omitted when listed"
(See auction listing here:
Beatles Yellow Submarine Lava Lamp MIB NR!)
Note the shipping calculator in the 'Shipping and payment details'
section. The bidder's ZIP code in Eugene, OR is 97405. Entering this ZIP
in the calculator shows us that the shipping cost to send via USPS
Priority Mail is $31.20. This is positive proof of the bidder's first lie
in my feedback. Shipping charge was listed.
- Bidder posts to my feedback, "offers
10% less"
This may not be clear to anyone who doesn't know the details of our
transaction. What happened was, I offered to send Parcel Post instead of
Priority and quoted the resulting shipping cost of $26.28. This is over
15% less. This is proof of bidder's second lie. An offer to ship at
over 15% less postage was made.
- Bidder posts to my feedback, "16lbs
later?"
Not sure what this means, the item always weighed a bit over 16 pounds.
The figure used for the shipping calculator when the item was listed was,
I believe, 16lbs. 8oz. This was my best guess between the 16 and 17 my
digital bathroom scale was alternately showing me as I weighed the item
alone and also with myself, subtracting my own weight (since bathroom scales
sometimes aren't accurate with lighter items). (Having since shipped several of
these, I have discovered that with shipping box and packing material
item can end up a hair over 18lbs, but that's neither here nor there, bidder was
always given shipping cost of package near 16lbs.)
- Bidder posts to my feedback, "a
SCAM!!!"
This is not only libelous, it appears to me this is an intentionally
inflammatory lie because I posted factual negative feedback to his profile
about our transaction which he reneged on. It is clearly retaliation. The
first point in this list is easily checked on by anyone and proof that there was no "scam".
The bidder always had access to the shipping cost.
To this bidder's lies I replied in feedback:
"NPB retaliates *sigh* LOOK at
listing. Ship calc is there! Is bidder blind?"
- "NPB
retaliates" - Had to respond in my own feedback
that this was a non-paying bidder who felt the need for 'revenge' so
anyone curious would know to look at his feedback.
- "*sigh*"
- It's exasperating to have liars pull this crap. You can see like
examples on many seller's feedback when they expose people who don't
follow through with their contractual obligations.
- "LOOK
at listing. Ship calc is there!" - This was to
inform those curious about the comment to see for themselves that the
bidder is wrong about the shipping cost not being available in the
listing.
- "Is
bidder blind?" - Well, is he?! It's there and
he's claiming it isn't and making a fuss and lying about me.
The NPB wasn't satisfied with his first libelous
lies so he had to add:
"Offered highest ship rate only.
Claims lavalamp & package at 16L BS? 1gal=8LBS!"
Here's the breakdown on THIS line of bullstuff:
- Bidder posts, "Offered
highest ship rate only."
Okay, so what's the 10% comment in the earlier post about? What about
the email below? This bidder is not only a liar, but a bad one.
- Bidder posts, "Claims
lavalamp & package at 16L BS?" - Actually I
claim, because it's true, that it's OVER 16 pounds and that's evident by
the shipping calculator that showed the shipping cost to anyone who wanted
to know even BEFORE bidding. It could also be confirmed by anyone who won
one of the other ones I auctioned or by weighing the one I still have that
the lying loser didn't pay for that could be used to bury him in court. I
also have all my postal receipts for the others I shipped and, though the USPS receipts for whatever reason
don't list item weight, it is possible to go
to the USPS web site and enter figures to confirm the weights of the
packages. (E.G. one shipped to Ventura, CA 93003-4645 cost me $34.65 to
ship. If you use the shipping calc on the auction page this NPB
questions, you'll see that it displays $31.20. In other words, I was
charging LESS than actual shipping!)
- Bidder posts, "1gal=8LBS!"
- This argument has no meaning whatsoever. A gallon is a measure of
volume, not weight. One gallon of water weighs about 8lbs. One
gallon of sand weighs about 15lbs! The Lava Lamp in question is not
one gallon, it's less. On the other hand, it also isn't water (or sand)
and it isn't just an uncontained volume of fluid. It is a heavy glass
bottle filled with some sort of oil mixture and a heavier wax. There's
also a metal coil in the bottom of the bottle to evenly distribute the
heat. But that's not all it is that weighs in for shipping. Also included
are these other not-weightless elements: A heavy, cast resin base and top.
The resin base contains a large, "Century" sized, metal Lava Lamp base
which naturally includes socket, socket mount, bulb, and cord. Being mint in box,
there's also the Lava Lamp care instructions, plastic bags, certificate of
authenticity, molded polystyrene packing block, and the lovely box.
All this together weighs in the neighborhood of about 15 pounds. To ship,
even more weight is added by packing material to protect the original box and
an outer shipping box, tape, and label.
That's about how it all sizes up. I'm sorry for all
the text and doubt anyone will bother to read it all, but I'm furious that
this NPB jerk can libel me and eBay has no system to prevent it in the first
place (I feel if you are a NPB or NPS (Non-Performing Seller) you shouldn't
even be allowed to leave feedback about a transaction that wasn't completed
due to your actions/inactions) or remove it without charge (or charge the
offending party) if it's clearly bogus. I understand they have no control
(initially) over what's posted, but if they can remove something as trite as
"naughty" words from feedback they should remove easily provable libel. In
my opinion, eBay's refusal to remove libel without paying Square Trade, a
lawyer, or whatever makes them an accessory to the crime. Newspapers that
print libel, even if inadvertantly, are required to run retractions. I
see no reason why eBay should be exempt from this.
Ug! Anyway, here are two emails that pretty well
show what happened between this NPB and me. This email was my third payment
request (counting invoice) sent 9 days after auction close:
Received: from rwcrmhc13.*****.net ([204.127.198.39])
by rwcrmxc13.*****.net (rwcrmxc13) with ESMTP
id <20031119061504r1300o32mne>; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:15:04 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [204.127.198.39]
Received: from muaddib
(pcp01728431pcs.nash01.tn.*****.net[68.52.***.***])
by *****.net (rwcrmhc13) with SMTP
id <20031119061458015000shsve>; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 06:14:59 +0000
Reply-To: <artbart@*****.net>
From: "Bart" <artbart@*****.net>
To: <waxonwax@***.org>
Cc: <artbart@*****.net>
Subject: RE: Your invoice for eBay purchases - item #3361396540, Beatles
Yellow Submarine Lava Lamp MIB NR!
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 00:14:50 -0600
Message-ID: <000801c3ae64$7491a310$6401a8c0@muaddib>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3AE32.29F73310"
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627
Importance: Normal
In-Reply-To: <3FB5600B.5050307@***.org>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
This is my third request for
payment on the item you agreed to buy in my auction that closed on
November 10. The only contact I have received from you is the email
below, which followed my original invoice (I notified you in my email
dated November 14, 8:45pm that I had not received the other email you
mentioned). In this email you expressed concern over the shipping cost
which I then explained to you was available to you before you placed
your bid. Allowing for your oversight, I suggested USPS Parcel Post as
an alternative for $4.32 less than what you agreed to when you placed
your bid. Since that email, sent on November 14 (four days ago), I have
not heard from you.
Please reply with your intentions on paying for this auction by the end
of Thursday, November 20. If you elect to renege on the contract or I
have not heard from you, and therefore consider your contractual
obligation in arrears, I must file a Non-Paying Bidder Alert with eBay
in order to begin the process of recouping my final value fees. If you
intend to meet your obligation, notify me of your method of payment by
email by the above date. Payment should then be made via PayPal on or
before Saturday, November 22 or, if mailed, post-marked by that date.
This will have allowed you a full 12 days, which is in no way
unreasonable, to pay for your item since the close of the auction.
Sincerely,
Bart Smith
-----Original Message-----
From: william lindquist [mailto:waxonwax@efn.org]
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 5:07 PM
To: artbart@*****.net
Subject: Re: Your invoice for eBay purchases - item #3361396540, Beatles
Yellow Submarine Lava Lamp MIB NR!
Hello-As I mentioned in the 1st email, the night of the auction
temination, I thought the shippng and handling charges were excessive
and I asked for an alternative. Since then I've heard zero from you on
this proposal. Therefore the auction in my opinion is in question.
PLeeaasse repond. Regards, William Lindquist
artbart@*****.net wrote:
<<<HTML eBay invoice followed. Changed to plain text for sake of my
sanity versus inserting the code to display properly here.>>>
Here's the invoice for your item, waxnwax!
Dear waxnwax,
Thank you for your purchase. The total for your item below is $75.20.
Please send payment for your eBay purchase
You can pay me securely with any major credit card through PayPal. I
accept the following payment methods: PayPal, Cashier's Check/Money
Order.
Item # Item Title Qty. Price
3361396540 Beatles Yellow Submarine Lava Lamp MIB NR! 1 $44.00
Payment Instructions
Haven't heard from you yet. First invoice sent on 11/11. Please respond
with payment preference or, if using PayPal, just use the checkout
option. -Bart
Please email me at artbart@*****.net if you have any questions.
Thank you again for your purchase.
bartsmith
<<<Remaining eBay stuff snipped>>>
|
A couple of days later the NPB finally lets me know
for sure he's not going to honor our contract. He replies using an earlier
email I sent offering him the alternate shipping option that in his feedback
he denies was offered to him:
Return-Path: <waxonwax@***.org>
Delivered-To: artbart@*****.net
Received: (qmail 9244 invoked by uid 417); 21 Nov 2003 03:12:51 -0000
Received: from shaw.***.org (207.189.190.22)
by 192.168.0.30 with SMTP; 21 Nov 2003 03:12:51 -0000
Received: from ***.org (dialup-ras25-217.eug.or.uspops.net
[64.28.61.217])
by shaw.***.org (8.12.6p3/8.12.6) with ESMTP id hAL26DHs021544
for <artbart@*****.net>; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:06:14 -0800 (PST)
(envelope-from waxonwax@***.org)
Message-ID: <3FBD739E.9010309@***.org>
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:08:30 -0800
From: william lindquist <waxonwax@***.org>
Reply-To: waxonwax@***.org
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-US; rv:1.0.1)
Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
X-Accept-Language: en,pdf
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: artbart@*****.net
Subject: Re: Your invoice for eBay purchases - item #3361396540, Beatles
Yellow
Submarine Lava Lamp MIB NR!
References: <000801c3ab22$8d6881a0$6501a8c0@muaddib>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------010305040503060401060203"
Hello-YOU should go ahead and relist as advised in your last email. I've
been out awhile and this has been extended to to far. Thankyou and good
luck, William
Bart wrote:
I’m not sure why I didn’t get your
first email unless you replied to the PayPal auto notice. I checked my
copy and though it shows my address it also states at the bottom:
“Please do not reply to this e-mail. Mail sent to this address cannot be
answered. For assistance, log in to your PayPal account and choose the
"Help" link in the header of any page.”
All I can figure is that your copy does not have my address in the
“reply-to” header information so, true to the notice, it either went off
to PayPal’s bit-bucket or will bounce. Not sure why they do it that way
– seems counter productive to me. Maybe in the future I should turn off
PayPal’s notification and just use eBay’s. Anyway…
A shipping cost calculator was available on the auction page and only
required one to enter a Zip code to determine the shipping total before
bidding. I do that so there is no surprise on the shipping cost. I’m
sorry you overlooked it. It’s a very nice feature. The $31.20 shipping
charge quoted is for USPS Priority delivery. We can get shipping down to
$26.88 by using USPS Parcel Post; it’s just a little slower. I know it’s
not a lot less, but that’s the best I can do. It is a large package and
weighs over 16 pounds and it’s just going to cost a bit to get it
shipped all the way across the country. If it makes you feel any better
these Yellow Submarine Lava Lamps originally retailed for $130.00 plus
sales tax and/or shipping so $70.88 delivered to your door isn’t bad.
If you want to ship Parcel Post and pay with PayPal I’ll have to refund
the difference back to your account since PayPal apparently won’t let
you change the shipping amount (Discovered this when I tried to lower
cost for someone for combined shipping recently).
So - that’s $70.88 total for delivery by Parcel Post or $75.20 for
Priority delivery if you want it faster. If you pay with PayPal and want
me to ship via Parcel Post, please include a note so I know to refund
the $4.32 difference. To pay by money order, certified check, or
personal check (personal check must clear my bank before I will ship)
send to:
Bart Smith
*******
Antioch, TN 37013
Please reply with payment method and, of course, don’t forget to include
your shipping address with payment.
If you choose to renege let me know that also so I can file with eBay
for recovery of my fees and re-list as soon as possible.
Thanks,
Bart
-----Original Message-----
From: william lindquist [mailto:waxonwax@***.org]
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 5:07 PM
To: artbart@*****.net
Subject: Re: Your invoice for eBay purchases - item #3361396540, Beatles
Yellow Submarine Lava Lamp MIB NR!
Hello-As I mentioned in the 1st email, the night of the auction
temination, I thought the shippng and handling charges were excessive
and I asked for an alternative. Since then I've heard zero from you on
this proposal. Therefore the auction in my opinion is in question.
PLeeaasse repond. Regards, William Lindquist
<<<Note:
eBay invoice followed and was apparently a little mangled by 'waxnwax's
Mac email software or something>>>
artbart@*****.net wrote:
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
<!--[endif]-->
<!--[if !vml]--> <!--[endif]-->Here's the invoice for your item, waxnwax!
Dear waxnwax,
Thank you for your purchase. The total for your item below is $75.20.
--------- snip 8<
--------- |
There you go. Just the facts! What
I'm Selling
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Item
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Start
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End
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Price
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Title
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High Bidder/Status
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Go see all current items for sale by this member.
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